Match Reports
Round 1 vs Miguel Flores (X-Sabers)
I ended up facing a very good friend and pro for the first round. Miguel is the first close friend I ever had in Yu-Gi-Oh! (back when we were both new to the game) and has multiple Shonen Jump Championship day two finishes (including a runner-up showing at the very first SJC). He has also attended Worlds after placing in the top four of the U.S Nationals for Yu-Gi-Oh!.
Game 1:
I won game one with an early Light and Darkness Dragon he was unable to answer.
Game 2:
After winning Game 1, I had control of game 2. I had Dustshooted Miguel’s hand a turn prior, revealing a Boggart Knight, one X-Saber Airbellum, and a few blanks. I sent back Boggart Knight. The next turn, he set his freshly drawn spell or trap card and ended with a Catastor destroying my Raiza.
I drew a Substitoad for my turn, leaving me with a hand of Swap Frog, Substitoad, LaDD, and Caius the Shadow Monarch with Treeborn Frog in the graveyard. I brought back Frog and tributed for Caius, targetting his s/t. I reasoned with one BTH in his graveyard (and me just having seen his hand the previous turn), chances were slim it was another BTH. I wanted to remove backrows to prevent elaborate Saber chains on my future LaDD since that was the only way I could see him winning.
I dropped Caius and it got Bottomlessed. Then it was my Substitoad, Swap Frog, and LaDD versus his Catastor, in hand Airbellum, and draw. I didn’t want to risk losing LaDD to an Airbellum hit so I SSed Swap Frog in defense and sent a Ronintoadin. I ended with Ronin + Swap Frog versus his Catastor.
Miguel redrew Boggart Knight, special summoned Airbellum, and swung direct to discard my LaDD. I lost game 2 and we went to time.
Game 3:
I opened with a very good hand for time. I had a Ryko, Brain Control, Enemy Controller, Raiza, Battle Fader, and Substitoad. I set Ryko and passed. Miguel summoned Boggart Knight and Fulhelmknight. My Ryko destroyed his Fulhelmknight. I believe Ryko milled a Treeborn. He then set a backrow.
I drew a blank. I did not want to risk the chance of paying 800 so I set Substitoad and passed. He drew and correctly moved Boggart to defense, set another s/t, and set a monster. In these sudden death time situations, it is always correct to play cautiously.
I drew and flipped Substitoad to load my graveyard through Treeborn Frog. I then summoned Raiza, targetted the monster, and attacked over Boggart in attack position with Econ for game. I read his s/ts as weak and had backup outs with Battle Fader.
Round 2 (1-0) versus Infernities
Game 1:
The opponent went first and opened with two s/ts. I had no clue what he was playing so I saved my Heavy Storm. Eventually, on my second turn, I ended up playing a Light and Darkness Dragon. It swung over Dark Grepher a turn later and I realized it was Infernities. He had no answer for LaDD and had apparently drawn a terrible hand.
Game 2:
This game was a bit closer. My opponent had the Infernity Launcher loop by his second turn but played it a bit incorrectly. He ended up making a bunch of subpar Synchros and swinging with a board that topped out at 2500 ATK (Stardust Dragon) into my Gorz with only one Barrier. I quickly reversed the field and ended in a dominating position. He had used all three Launchers and a Mirage so I was in a great position. His next draw was Mirage, however, and I lost.
Game 3:
I opened the worst hand I had seen all day. It was something like Diva, Diva, Gillman, Instant Fusion, MST, and Swap Frog I do not remember. I simply drew, set MST, and passed. My opponent summoned an Archfiend and attacked for 1800 damage. He then set a backrow which was MSTed.
The next turn I ended up making a Goyo Guardian with Swap Frog and Diva and took the Archfiend. I wanted to keep it off the board in case he could explode the next turn. He did not draw anything of note. I then rushed the field with my other Diva, made a Brionac, and started bouncing monsters to his hand each turn until he lost.
Round 3 (2-0) versus a Frog Variant
Game 1:
I was not happy with my opponent in this round. He arrived about five minutes late and took a long time to play his cards. His deck’s win condition was to play multiple Dupe Frogs with Substitoad, ending with a board of Dupe Frogs, Substitoad, and a Flip Flop Frog in defense position. His goal, after this lock, would be to go to time while poking for damage. He played Plasma, Barbaros, and other three tribute monsters for some explosiveness.
At one point I Mind Crushed his hand and was in complete control. However, the duelist refused to show his hand to me even after the judge alerted him to the rules. I calmly told him I would just make a quick note but he kept flipping his hand over (just showing me a flash of brown) and I was unable to verify if he had additional LaDD in his hand.
Eventually he drew a Substitoad and reversed the game (I did not know his goal was to lock and stall to time or I would have taken the Substitoad). As he flip flopped my monsters, he would flick my monsters back toward my hand with his cards (I think he was upset that he lost the Mind Crush appeal). I was not a fan of this. He took minutes to play each hand even with only two or three cards in hand and we conveniently went to time as he was winning game one.
Game 2:
He set up the lock by turn 2. However, I had lucksacked into a Battle Fader and Caius combo. He ended up tributing for Barbaros and trying to swing for game. I dropped Fader then Caius (on my turn in sudden death) to win.
Game 3:
I was still very upset at having to play this kind of deck/strategy that showed up late, stalled to time, while hiding behind Dupe Frogs and Battle Faders. However, I ended up drawing Fader and Caius again!
This time, I ssed Treeborn Frog and tributed Frog for Caius, targetting Battle Fader in the case of Bottomless Trap Hole. Unfortunately, the head judge Andrew Bowling ruled that Fader would remove itself before Caius. I could not deal 1000 damage and got Flip Flopped the next turn for game.
I later had a discussion with Andrew Bowling (one of the best judges in the business) and he explained the murky nature of the ruling and how he was submitting an appeal to Japan to get final wording on the situation. For now though, don’t remove Faders with Caius in sudden death!
Round 4 (2-1) versus Cyber Dragon.Deck!
Game 1:
This was one of the nicest and funniest players I met all weekend. He started and played a Different Dimension Capsule and a Cyber Phoenix. Midgame, I reversed the field and ended up Aoi’ing his hand, revealing a broken hand of Future Fusion, Overload Fusion, and some other cards. I pitched Future Fusion. Another Aoi, a few turns later, ended up sealing the game.
Game 2:
Again, he played cards such as Cyber Dragon Zwei and another Different Dimension Capsule. I was able to thwart his manuevers with LaDD. He later told me the deck revolved around Power Bond and that he hadn’t played against meta decks before (he had to read each Frog to see what was going on).
Related posts:
Hey Jae,
nice read and exciting duels! One question: What was your side/extra look like?
Thx, always enjoy your blog!
Greatz,
kumpii
Thank you Kumpii.
I forgot the side/extra. It is on the main site.
Side Deck: 15
2 D.D. Crow
1 Super-Nimble Mega Hamster
3 Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter
2 Prime Material Dragon
2 Crevice into the Different Dimension
3 Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World
2 Dust Tornado
Extra Deck: 15
1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon
1 Reaper on the Nightmare
1 Musician King
1 X-Saber Urbellum
1 Arcanite Magician
1 Goyo Guardian
1 Armory Arm
1 Stardust Dragon
1 Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
1 Black Rose Dragon
1 Sea Dragon Lord Gishilnodon
2 Ally of Justice Catastor
1 Magical Android
1 Colossal Fighter
ruled that Fader would remove itself before Caius.
This doesn’t make sense at all :\
Anyway, good job on the top.
Also, can you tell what did you side in/out on each different matchup? I’m playing Frognarchs too and wanted to get some more knowledge about the deck against each different deck
Ty, and keep with the good articles ;]
Nice stuff Jae, about time I saw a report as long as one of mine
Was intrigued by one thing though:
Have you got a link for this?
first off: congrats, Jae! Good to see your name in the T32/16 again.
I was wondering what your opinions might be on the tournament as a whole. Seemed to be a TON of x/x-saber. And even though infernity won, it seems to have experienced a sharp drop off in performance. What do you think, man?
You must tell me about this probability calculator
“One of my philosophies is that preventive cards such as Jinzo, King Tiger Wanghu, and Vanity’s Fiend are bad unless you can win the game (deal 8000 life points) before your opponent draws an answer to the card.”
Do you still feel this way? I had not heard of this before though it makes sense on some level. Do you know any other pros do you feel the same way or are you the only one who has this philosophy to your knowledge?
Hi Jae. As always great post.
I got to ask you: didn’t you felt sometimes there were to many monsters throughout the tournament? The ratio seems a bit unbalanced. Weren’t there situations in which you felt more s/t would be necessary? And specifically, haven’t you missed some defensive traps?
I really understand your build intends to max out the main strenghts of the deck and it plays agressively with hand and field control, but I really want to know your impressions about the above questions.
Specially because major events like that (which we don’t have yet here in Brazil) with a great variety of strategies and excellent players really tests the deck and eventually helps to clearly understand strenghts and weaknesses of it.
Thanks in advance.
Did I just spot Jae not knowing what ‘free’ is?
I will link the calculator in my next post (sorry to tease).
Ben, I think Sabers benefit from two factors. 1) More “new player” friendly. 2) more stable. Infernities were still represented decently in my opinion.
Q, I still feel the same way. I think Vanity’s Fiend is a special case just because of how powerful it is right now. I think most pros agree that preventive cards are not as good as cards like Decree/Oppression that generate advantage while preventing.
Lucas, thanks for your kind words. While I was a bit concerned about the thick monster count, I think that’s just the nature of Frog Monarchs and cannot be helped. In this format, I consider the pre-negators to be about as defensive as can be.
Exiro, not sure what you mean by that comment
. Care to explain?
Good stuff as always Mr. Kim!
I actually read about Yu-Gi-Oh! More than I actually play it. You’re about half of the reason for that odd habbit of mine. (The other reason is another seasoned writer formerly of Metagame.com, but I think it might be a bit odd to come to your blog and speak of another writer… I could go to his articles to do that). Just to try to throw out a question, I used to have this cool deck that involved Sky Scourge Norelas and Phantom of Chaos… It used Destiny Draw with Diamond Dude and Gold Sarcophagus to try to find effects that would actually survive the hand-nuking of Norelas… I guess with Infernities out that deck would really suck now huh? Eh… Have a good one J.
2 D.D. Crow
1 Super-Nimble Mega Hamster
3 Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter
2 Prime Material Dragon
2 Crevice into the Different Dimension
3 Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World
2 Dust Tornado
Against what do you side in PMD?
Great read as always, Jae. I’ve been testing Frog Monarchs splashing Quickdraw Synchron, and I really like that deck (Drill Warrior is nasty in a Monarch deck), but the potential of Deep Sea Diva is too awesome to not contemplate.
Great job Jae. Wish I could’ve been there. I’m loving Frog Monarchs (as I’ve always been a Monarch player when I could be), but the meta evolving to a point where I have to end up taking Thestalos out of the main makes me teary-eyed. I’m still not sold on the Diva Engine, but I’ll test it when I get home (I’m in Vegas playing the WSOP right now).
Also, props on the side. While it used to be easy to side with Monarchs, I feel that Frog Monarchs are so tight with it’s flow (as are a lot of decks these days) that it makes it difficult to want to side without accidentally oversiding (I take it you side out the Diva engine for the Hamster one).
I won’t be at Nats (had to choose my vacation time carefully), but I’m sure I’ll see you at the next Westcoast Jump.
Hey Jae,
Like a couple people have already mentioned and asked, I would love to have a link to this probability calculator for a deck like Infernities for example…
Good report!
I’ve been running frog monarchs for a while now and the main problem that I’ve had is against X-saber decks.
I usually win game 1 but then they side in 3 masks of restrict, chain disappearance and that destroys me.
Do you have any advice for me? I see that you’re running 3 goldds in your side-deck, is that for the Gottoms discard?
Hey Jae, can you explain how you sided for each matchup.
@Jae
Getting something for free means that you gain something or your opponent loses something without you eventually losing anything and without your opponent eventually gaining anything. In other words, the final result is a +1 or higher.
Diva into Catasor is a +0. You do gain Gillman, but you lose 2 monsters for 1 immediately after that.
Diva with Econ into Goyo is a +0. Diva = +1; E-con cost = -2 (itself and a monster); Econ effect = +2 (you get and your opponent loses); Synchro = -1.
True free cards include Wulf, Dandy, D.D. Scout/Survivor, Stratos, Gadgets, etc.
Did the Reaper of the Nightmare served any purpose aside from a LV 5 fodder?
I am testing out your deck (making my own tweaks) and I wanted to see if I was missing anything there. I’ve replaced it with Deep Sea Shark which is a LV 5 as well and sports a water attribute for Aoi.
Magic: I know a lot of players who have been tinkering with Norelas for a long time now. Yes, I think Infernities make things difficult
. GB’s are also bad because any monster they draw can lead to increased advantage.
Zinger: I’m not familiar what PMD is
Justin: Yes I think Goldd is very good against X-Sabers, especially when they get overzealous. The Ryko/Hamster engine is a classic one that can help break the Mask of Restrict board.
Exiro: While I value your contributions to this blog I think this post misses the bigger picture. I’m well aware of how to analyze card advantage. You’re missing a few things in your calculations. 1) Catastor is a +0 that is actually more than that based on its effect and field presence. It’s doubly superior if you are killing an Obelisk/Emmersblade type card (in which case it is indeed a +1).
Diva with Econ into Goyo is not a +0. You lose Diva, Econ, your opponent loses a monster, you gain a free Gillman (if you took their level 4) and a Goyo. You also cost them a normal summon that led directly to a big monster on the board that pressures them. Then throw in the fact that Goyo can +1 off it’s own effect as well.
I think you are guilty of something I try to constantly address in my articles. At a certain point you have to convert card advantage to something bigger (tempo, game shots, field pressure). You can’t be stuck into a rote mode of analyzing basic advantage plays.
@Jae
You can’t count effects or attacks that occur after the summon of a monster as part of the advantage that the move generates, because there is a way too big chance that it won’t actually happen. Examples include BTH, Solemn, D-Prison, Mirror Force, Torrent, Divine Warning, etc.
I do agree that it is important to convert card advantage, but this fact leaves the way to count that advantage untouched. What you seem to be trying is adding the result of your advantage to the advantage itself, but they should remain separated in order to determine the true gains of your moves.
@ Exiro
I think that you’re wrong. You have to consider the circumstances. A good example of this is compulsory evacuation device. If you look at it you can see oh its an instant -1. But in many situations it won’t be a -1. You bounce their synchro or fusion, it goes back to extra deck. They wasted many valuable resources and with this one “-1″ card you’ve gotten rid of it. Or you can save a monster from being brain or mind controlled.
Both of you guys are right. The play itself isn’t a plus, but the impact on the game is very much positive for the player. You exchange a Diva + E-Con for a Goyo Guardian and monster removal, which very likely would give you immediate field presence and can plus off its effect. The impact is that you simplified the gamestate and gave yourself a bigger piece than you would have had before.
However, it is inaccurate to represent the move itself as “free advantage” because you’re merely breaking even. Still, break even plays are generally very good for the player who initiates them on his terms. Otherwise, Icarus Attack would be a terrible card.
Hey guys thanks for the discussion.
I don’t want to belabor the point, but with the way I play my deck it actually is free advantage. It may not be free advantage if you’re simply talking about only calculating exact card presence. However, this approach tends to fail when you start calculating cards like Stardust Assault Mode and Stardust Dragon as mere cards, no?
Regardless of what your experience might lead you to believe, there is a concrete *advantage* to be gained by being able to make a play such as Diva into Gilman, Aoi Diva on Draw Phase (take their worst card), and then set up a tribute summon for Gilman. While the advantage may eventually even out (Diva, Aoi, and Caius for a card in their hand, card on field)……. a few important facts remain:
1) When you take away options, it’s a lot harder to deal with a Caius
2) You saw their hand and took away the best card
3) Caius removed their best set for the turn
4) You are up two normal summons (once you summon on your turn) and will deal 3000+ damage.
Diva into Econ
1) Diva + Econ for one of the best monsters in the game (Goyo or Brionac or a level 8 or such) + a free Gillman if you’re making a 6 off a 4 + they lose a monster.
2) You take away their normal summon and gain one.
3) You create immense life point pressure while ruining their field presence.
4) In an ideal scenario (say you Econ a level 3 or 4), you get a free Gilman and deal about 4000+ damage. It’s highly unlikely they will be able to get rid of a Catastor or a Goyo with a plus. Even if they do, Frog Monarchs are designed to continually grind the opponent down. I’ll have a Caius, Raiza, or LaDD follow up easily.
When you make a Diva play for Catastor or Goyo or Brionac, I mean “free” in the sense that you’re not paying an additional tribute for a powerful monster. This might have been sloppy terminology but it is indeed advantage. You can’t legitimately say that a monster like Diva or Blizzard does not create card advantage. A monster like Goyo can create multiple + while changing the tempo completely and creating pressure.
Hi Jae,
I really loved this article and have started working on a similar strategy myself. And that is an impressive record to take this deck to. I’ve actually started testing variants of it, and one card that you may find that fits your play style is Fenrir. It’d be an interesting rebuild, but especially with the Enemy Controller, you can strip players of the one thing any strategy needs to thrive: their draw phase.
It’d take some altercations to fit properly (i.e. I’ve run into problems between choosing between Ronintoadin or Fenrir), but so far testing is going well, especially when attacking the field with Monarchs (especially Raiza, which blocks draws as well) while spells and traps pluck cards from the hand, (Aoi, Mind Crush, Dustshoot, Ruthless Denial, and D.D. Designator). But then again, you should take my comments lightly, because after all, why fix what isn’t broken?
Congratulations on doing so well with this deck, and I wish you the best at Nationals.
Hi Jae,
I usually find the gladial matchup quite annoying…what do you suggest against them? And which are the main side changes against GB/Saber/Infernity/Herald? I don’t get how the rykos-nimble-crows-crevices-goldds sided could fit well in the main deck. Thanks for your time and your kind explaination.